The Hon. David Littleproud, Leader of the Nationals, Senator The Hon. Bridget Mckenzie, Doorstop transcript, 1 July 2024

David Littleproud

Well, thanks for coming today. It’s important we’ve got Keep the Sheep Movement here. They have come from Western Australia. They’re showing respect to this Parliament by coming in and trying to talk to Senators and give them the opportunity to learn of their lived experience of their livelihoods that are going to take to be taken away.

This Government has treated them with absolute contempt. The Agriculture Minister promised a Senate Inquiry, he failed to do that, he is going to actually phase out the live sheep industry by 2028. There is plenty of time to sit down and make sure that they understand and explain the size and the economics as to why they’re shutting this industry down.

That’s the respect that should be shown to Western Australian producers, to industry, so that they understand the ideology behind this decision, because there is no scientific or economic reason to do this if they’re honest.

This is all about activists being able to run this Government. This is about them cutting a deal for preferences so that at the next election they can get re-elected. It’s not about the livelihoods or about animal welfare. This will see the perverse and horrific death of millions of sheep from around the world if Australia cuts and runs. So it’s important that this Parliament and this Government shows the respect to these men and women, who have come from Western Australia, who can’t get this Parliament to go to Western Australia and listen to them.

But even if they do in their hearts, believe this, why wouldn’t you have a Senate Inquiry like the Minister promised, so that those who will vote and ultimately determine whether this industry survives or not, would actually hear from the men and women whose lives have been interrupted and impacted by this senseless decision.

If you have the courage of your conviction, if you believe in what you are going to impose on your fellow Australian, then go and look them in the eye, explain it, and listen to them of their lived experience.  Unfortunately we’ve got a Government that won’t do that. We’ve now got Western Australian Senators who have an opportunity, as Senator Fatima Payman said and did last week in crossing the floor. Please appreciate that she’s prepared to cross the floor for the Palestinian people. She should cross the floor again for the Western Australian people.

But Senator Fatima Payman should also understand that in fact, some of our sheep from this country is at the moment going into the Gaza. It is on a humanitarian mission to save lives and around food security. That’s what this industry does. That is the social license that this industry has created and is part of.

Unfortunately if we’re not there, those animal welfare standards that we’ve created as an industry and as a Government in years past, leads the world. And you will see that senseless death. So, we say to the Government today, and my Senate leader in the Senate is going to put a Motion in today, that I think gives this opportunity for the Government to pause and get this right. You’ve got until 2028, show some respect.

Anthony Albanese became Prime Minister and said no one will be held back, no one will be left behind. That’s unless you’re a Western Australian. He doesn’t trust the Western Australian people. It’s time for Anthony Albanese to take a deep breath, put on the Senate Inquiry that Murray Watt promised these people, so that they can understand and they can put their case. That’s what a democracy should do. I’ll hand over to Bridget to explain what we’re doing in the Senate today and we’ll hand over to these five people whose livelihoods are about to be taken away. Bridget.

Bridget Mckenzie

Thanks boss. Well, the Prime Minister’s keys to the Lodge were paid through Western Australia and since coming to Government, he’s turned his back and become a very East Coast PM. Shutting down this trade won’t just hurt the primary producers. It’ll hurt the truckies, the regional communities, our trading partners, and indeed, as David said, food security in the Middle East.

This is culturally appropriate protein heading under world class animal standards here in Australia to the Middle East that these guys are trying to shut down for an East Coast political deal. Seats in Brisbane, Sydney, and Melbourne, and it is nothing to do with Western Australia. Perth is a capital city in this country that is more connected to its regions than any other, and it feels this pain.

Last week in the Senate we moved for this legislation to be heard by the Rural and Regional Affairs Senate Committee. Thank you to Senators Pocock and Lambie and others who supported us in that because they knew that Murray Watt promised this industry a Senate Inquiry and Senate Estimates, we all heard it. It’s on the record. And yet he turned his back on that and gave a sham inquiry through the House of Reps. Haven’t even uploaded all the submissions to that Inquiry, such as the disrespect for the people that are going to be impacted by the shutdown.

We’re not going to change the substantive vote, we know that. But at least give people the decency and respect to understand the impact of your decisions on their lives and their livelihoods and that of their communities and their future.

So today we are moving in the Senate, a reference to the Senate Committee of Rural and Regional Affairs to actually understand the impact of the closure of the trade. Its impact on our trading partners, on food security in the Middle East, on the welfare of animals, but also on the welfare of humans of our primary producers in the West, on our truckies and our regional communities.

We heard evidence during the House of Reps Inquiry, that farmers do not understand why they’re suddenly being asked to have a social license for producing clean, green food for the world. It’s an indictment on this Government and I beg Senators today, they know we’re not going to change your view on the substantive vote, but at least allow for a proper Inquiry over coming weeks so that our producers and their concerns can adequately be heard and considered.

Ben Sutherland

Ben Sutherland from Keep the Sheep.

This report and decision and this Bill is going to take my livelihood away from me, 30 per cent of that. I really think the Government needs to show us some respect and give us that chance to have our Senate Inquiry.

It affects my IGA, it affects my pub, it affects my sporting groups, it affects everything that goes on in my rural community. They need to come and see that and see what damage they’re doing to us. So far for Keep the Sheep, we’ve raised $407,000 to start targeting three marginal seats in WA.  We’ve also got 63,000 signatures involved on the website and we’ve got thousands of people, urban and rural people as volunteers, which we call our Farmy Army to come and help us fight this terrible decision.

I please just plead with the Government they need to stop this right now. They need to come and help blokes like me, blokes like John and farm. They need to come and see the damage they’re doing by not giving us the proper respect.

Dr Holly Ludeman

Thank you, Holly Ludeman.

As a veterinarian, I’ve seen the significant animal welfare improvements, and now we are seeing the significant decrease in welfare of our regional communities. We saw a rally of 1700 vehicles, 3000 people come together that want this to stop. We want to talk to our Labor Senators and Labor MPs. We are here from WA, we’ve come 4,000 kilometres to share our story. For our truck drivers, keep the sheep, for our shearers, keep the sheep for our farming and rural communities, keep the sheep.

John Hassell

As has been said, we’ve raised over $400,000. We’ve got 62,000 signatures and thousands of volunteers. And those volunteers will be active this week when we get back from Canberra in the seats of Tangney, Hasluck and in the new seat of Bullwinkle. The Labor members need to understand that if they don’t do something about this, we’ll be targeting as, as we raise more funds, we’ll be targeting every marginal Labor seat across this country to try and get what we need for this decision.

Journalist

Question for Bridget. In terms of the Senate Inquiry, the Government would make the argument that they had the independent panel process, they had the very brief House of Reps Inquiry, they’ve heard all the arguments. What more could a Senate Inquiry achieve that the previous reviews and inquiries haven’t.

Bridget Mckenzie

Actually allowing a platform for the impacted Australians to be heard. The independent Inquiry you’re talking about, travelled around, the Minister did not come out to these communities to sit and hear directly from the men and women and children whose lives and livelihoods are going to be impacted by his decision making. No one’s arguing that he has the right to make this decision, but it is about respecting the fact that you are shutting down a world class industry and you are not prepared to front up, face up, sit down and hear their legitimate concerns.

When he promised a Senate Inquiry in Senate Estimates, that’s what he should deliver. They’ve delayed the bringing down of the report, they’ve delayed the legislation, it’s not coming in for years. What’s another two months going to be to actually give the thousands and thousands, of not just primary producers, but we’ve heard from local doctors, local supermarkets as Benno was saying, owners of pubs, the whole gamut of social and economic impacts that are going to come as a result of this shutdown, that haven’t been aired.

So the Minister might like to say that, oh, we’ve ticked all the boxes on consult, let’s have some genuine consultation with the people that are really impacted. We are not in a rush, and it’s the very least you can do as you take away their livelihood.

David Littleproud

Can I just say on that too, it’s important in that report, what the Government’s ignored is the fact that one of their recommendations was that this industry should not be phased out until there was a mature processing sector in WA. They’ve actually ignored the very independent report that they commissioned, that the Minister sat on for six months, but now wants to be able to rush this through without any actual real consultation to these men and women whose livelihoods they’re going to take away. So why wouldn’t the Senate actually strip apart that independent review and make sure that the issues that were raised in that, are actually explored by those that are ultimately going to make that decision. The men and women and the Senate.

I think this is not just about respect, this is about due process and about making sure and understanding you’ve got the time to do this. We’ve got till 2028. And if they are so convicted in their courage of what they’re going to do, then why would another three to six months of listening and putting that report out, so that it can be explored, it can actually be pulled apart and validated in one way or another. Why wouldn’t you do that?
That is what we’re elected to do. That’s the privilege that we get when we come to this place. And a Government shouldn’t turn its back on that, when you are making such a monumental decision about people’s livelihood.  These men and women are about to lose their livelihoods. What Australian Government does that, without having the courage to front up to them, eyeball them and explain why, and they can’t.

Journalist

Can I ask you a question about this, Bridget? Well first to you. You said that there’s nothing that can be done that could change the substantive vote. By my reckoning, that’s not true. If Fatima Payman crossed the floor, then it might not get through. And then secondly, Holly can ask you to explain and give us some facts on the welfare improvements that have been made, because this is the major criticism of this industry.

Bridget Mckenzie

Well, if Senator Payman has suddenly found convictions that are going to allow her to cross the floor.  I’d like her to not just stand up for the men and women in Gaza, that she says she stood up for last week, but why doesn’t she stand up for the men and women of her own home state that elected her to the Australian Senate. Stand up for the Australian men and women who are going to be impacted by the Labor Party’s decision making. Because she has a choice.

She can vote for a Senate Inquiry, she can also vote to stand up for against the live sheep trade. As David Littleproud has made very, very clear the election of a Coalition Government, will see this ban overturned. We’ve been unequivocal in that. And that is why as the WA farmers and the Keep the Sheep group has said, the hundreds of thousands of dollars that has been fundraised very quickly, will be spent targeting marginal Labor seats, so that we can change the Government and this ban can be overturned.

Senator Payman has a choice. Let’s hope she’s equally convicted about the Australians that are impacted by these decisions, as she’s by people that are impacted in other places.

Journalist

What seats are you targeting?

David Littleproud

John can answer that.

Dr Holly Ludeman

Thank you. The animal welfare improvements have been significant and the industry we see today is not the industry it was when Labor took out this policy. We’ve had significant decreases in mortality, and significant improvements in voyage outcomes. We’re getting the best voyage outcomes in history. Animals have more space; they have better-ventilated vessels, they’re getting excellent outcomes and, our suppliers and our importers at the other end are overwhelmed by the quality of Australian livestock, which is providing food security around the world.

Journalist

What’s the death rate?

Dr Holly Ludeman

It’s less than 0.2 per cent.

Journalist

What was it?

Dr Holly Ludeman

It was up to 0.8 to 1 per cent, historically. So we’ve had significant improvements and we’re not measuring success by mortality. We’re looking at animal welfare measures. So how are the animals coping in the environment? Are they eating? Are they drinking? Are they putting on weight? And we are proving that the animals are doing these things. There’s a significant amount of research through the R and D bodies that have gone into animal welfare, and we are leading the world in animal welfare. We are not leading the world in the welfare of our rural communities with this policy. It doesn’t improve the outcomes for thousands of people and thousands of communities. It is tokenistic. The evidence provided to the House of Reps inquiry was from a group of activists. They weren’t experts who had sailed on a vessel recently or seen the improvements that the industry has made.

David Littleproud

We’re the only country in the world that measures the success of shipments on animal welfare. Not on mortality. We actually go into the heart, we measure to the millimetre the length of wool on a sheep, the kilograms of that beast before we put it on. We score each boat individually in terms of the airflow that you go through. In fact, we’ve even got stockmen and women and observers on these boats that count the pants per minute of a sheep on those boats. No other country in the world does that. But you know, the countries will take this market up when we cut and run. It’ll be Ethiopia, Sudan, South Africa. They put as many sheep as they possibly can on the boat. They don’t have the stocking density rates that we do. They simply put as many as they can, and they get paid for what’s left at the other end. These activists are morally bankrupt to sit there and value the welfare, of a sheep in Australia above that, from somewhere else around the world. I would’ve thought for their moral standing that they would be sitting there saying that Australia should stay and lead the world and change the world rather than cut and run. And that’s just in the transport, that’s not also in the processing. We lose our influence in these countries in the processing of these sheep when they go there because they won’t have to live up to Australian standards. And when there’s leakage where you see Animals Australia is very quick to put vision out of sheep being shoved in the back of a boot and being slaughtered at home, that becomes the norm. That’s what happens when we cut and run. When Australia is too weak to do its job and to do what’s right in a global community. That’s what happens. And that’s why RSPCA and Animals Australia are morally bankrupt. Ask them those questions. Get them to show you some vision of a boat from Sudan and I can tell you, most Australians say get behind these people because they do it better than anyone else in the world. John, do you want to talk about the seats John?

John Hassell

For starters, we will target Hasluck, Tangney and the new seat of Bullwinkle in Western Australia. Then we will expand to the rest of Western Australia. So, Hasluck, Tagney, Swan, Pearce and Cowan. Then there’s others such as Lingari and others across the country. We will target any marginally held seat across the country that’s Labor held if they don’t listen to us.

Journalist

Kate Chaney changed her view. Have you spoken to her?

John Hassell

Not personally, but we did actually have her electorate on the list, which we no longer do.

Journalist

Just a question for Ben. You spoke about the impact of this is not just on the farmers necessarily, but the flow-on effects to the IGA and the sporting clubs. We’ve seen through the Keep The Sheep Campaign,  little videos of sporting clubs, you know, using the motto. Can you give us a sense of what the mood is like in those communities as, you know, politicians in Canberra make this decision?

Ben Sutherland

They’re nervous mate. All our communities are nervous. Like I personally spend up to $10,000 a year on sporting clubs, bits, and pieces just as a local transport operator. People are already starting to ask me, are we going to pull that funding from them? You know, it’s the hockey kids and their jumpers, it’s the new footballs, it’s umpires. We actually pay for the umpires to come and sort the games out. It’s those, the community is actually just like us mate up in arms and, and really worried about what’s going to happen.

Journalist

Does the one $7 million support package give you any level of confidence?

Ben Sutherland

No, not at all. For an industry that contributes billions of dollars, it doesn’t even quantify what I do. You know, there’s nothing in there for us. It’s just a smack in the face.

Bridget Mckenzie

Can I just say something on the $107 million. This government spent more money supporting the production of the Mad Max movie than it is supporting thousands and thousands of people’s livelihoods in WA. That is absolutely why we need to Senate Inquiry because it is not just a slap in the face morally, but politically, economically, and socially. This is a government that cares more about producing movies on the East Coast than it does in actually supporting a fantastic industry in the West.

Michael White

I’m Michael White president of Broomehill-Tambellup Shire and representing seven Central Great Southern Alliance shires. We’ve had an independent report done on what it will cost our community. It’s come in at between $430 and $740 million over the next 20 years. That’s going to have a significant impact on all our small communities far more than what’s being offered.

Far more that’s being reported in the media. It’s going to impact the employment of young people, which I’m very concerned about because the sheep industry employs a lot of young people and keeping them in the community going forward is vital to how a community runs. So, the impact is far greater than what the government has indicated will be with their report, and ours is an independent report.

Mark Harvey-Sutton

To add to your point Michael, oh sorry, I’m Mark Harvey-Sutton, Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Livestock Exporters’ Council. To your question about the $107 million funding that’s been provided. It’s very important to point out that only $60 million of that has been slated towards actual transition that’ll assist producers, truckies and processors to upscale. And if you space that out over four years, that’s only $15 million per year. The Western Australian Government, which does not support this policy, has itself said it’ll cost $128 million per year over 10 years just to adequately phase this industry out. That’s over a billion dollars and what we are seeing at the moment is people are so worried about that because they’ve been left in the lurch. And I can say, just last week we had a major abattoir in Western Australia actually jumped on board the Keep The Sheep Campaign because they’re extremely worried about the impact this will have on the supply of sheep. We know in Western Australia to have a viable sheep industry you need wool production, meat processing, and live export. You take one of those away, you take competition away and that sees people walk away from sheep production. So, we’ve got an abattoir in Western Australia, that’s supposed to be the beneficiary of this phase-out, actually signing up to the Keep The Sheep Campaign. Thank you.

Journalist

I’ll just get your full name. Oh sorry, your name.

Mark Harvey-Sutton

Oh, sorry. Mark Harvey-Sutton, CEO of Australian Livestock Exporters’ Council. Thank you.

Journalist

One for Bridget. One of the arguments for the welfare of the animals is the fact that it is going from Australia to the Middle East, which is quite a long journey. Have you been in discussions with the Government at all around boosting our trade links with more closer neighbours or has live export, come up with anyone in the South East Asia region as future people to, you know, take over from that concern.

Bridget Mckenzie

I’ll let David follow me on this as the Shadow Ag Minister, but the point I was making about culturally appropriate protein is these markets want live beasts. They want live sheep. They do not want chilled sheep meat, otherwise they’d purchase chill sheep meat. There’s a whole supply chain here at home and in the Middle East to our customers that is set up for that process. We’ve all been around politics a long time, we know how long it takes to land trade agreements, trade arrangements, and the fact that seeking to fulfill and sort of fill that gap whilst you’re actually giving a massive signal to primary producers that the live sheep trade is not part of your business anymore, I think is asking primary producers to stay around and hope that a future market will be set up when right now you are pulling an existing market out from under them.

Journalist

Have you been in discussions with the Government at all in establishing another live export industry with these neighbours or?

Bridget Mckenzie

The Government’s made it very clear in all the private and public discussions that we’ve had with them that this is a political decision based on a political reality on the East Coast to get preference deals in major capital cities on the East Coast of Australia and it is the Western Australian sheep industry that’s going to have to pay that price.

David Littleproud

I think it’s important to understand their philosophically opposed to live export a sheep. And I can tell you it’s coming to a state and industry near you. Cattle. Cattle will also impacted by this. Western Australian cattle will be impacted by this. So, they’re not going to open up new markets when they are philosophically and ideologically opposed to it. That’s ignorant to the cultural beliefs of those in the Middle East. It’s demeaning to their culture. They actually have a taste for sheep, and they want it like you want to be able to go to the supermarket and buy fresh meat. So do they. They want to be able to go to an abattoir. I can tell you there’s an abattoir in Kuwait City that’s brand new, the size of a rugby league field, complete with a viewing area for 2000 people and a play pen for the kids in the corner. And you go and you put a tag around the sheep that you want, you wait for your number, and they want to be able to make sure that it’s processed to their religious beliefs. They watch it go all the way through. If we aren’t there, then those sorts of facilities don’t need to be there because they’re doing that because they respect us, they respect our animal welfare standards. And they’re doing that because it’s around not just their cultural belief, it’s around their food security, and so we’re disrespecting them and arrogantly looking down our nose and saying, this is not an issue for you. We’ll send boxed and frozen. Well let me tell you, when Awassi Express did hit and I was agriculture minister, I went there and was summoned to see the Prime Minister of Qatar and he made it very clear, don’t think you can send boxed and chilled sheep if you don’t send us live sheep. There’s other markets that we’ll take. If you want to look down your nose at us, then this has trade implications and not just for live sheep but for the other commodities that we also sell. So, this is a small creeper that everyone needs to understand that cattle is the next cab off the rank and they’ve been very clear that they don’t philosophically want to see cattle. Now try saying that to our friends in Indonesia. Try saying that to our friends in Vietnam and just remember, you’re about to get hit with a bill of close to $600 million because of the last time Labor put their fingers across live export. They’re not interested in that and this folly that we’re all going to process it when even the processors are saying this is very seasonal in Western Australia and to not understand the production systems and to say we can just process our way out this. Well that’s nonsense. You can’t keep a processing facility going for a full year, 365 days a year and put out $50 million and hope you’ll get a return. It doesn’t work that way. And then these poor people are going to bring their stuff across the Nullarbor. So, you know, you’ve just got to understand that these people are being treated as second class citizens. Western Australians have been cast aside by this Government when they have done that’s been asked of them and the cattle industry got a second chance. The sheep industry has reformed itself to lead the world in animal welfare standards. There is no way in the world that anyone should cut, run this initiative and cut these people’s livelihoods out from under them. Thanks guys.